how the universe got here
I’d like to resubmit a post I had earlier to see if we can have a discussion free of name calling. I did some editing to make it simpler. I hope we can discuss this topic without ad hominess attacks and name-calling because after a lengthy discussion with one of the admins, I am assured that name-callers will be booted immediately. Thanks. I appreciate discussions free of being attacked for my scientific views. I digress. Here it is again, edited for submission.
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There needs to be a way to explain how the universe got here. The only way I can think of is that it reboots. It began with the Big Bang. It will end with a Big Crunch. In the end, the universe will be nothing, but black holes, dark matter and dark energy.
The darkness will evaporate. The universe will die. Then what happens? Something interesting. The forces merge. The energy combines. It cools. As the energy cools, it expands. Forces separate. Particles form.
The entire universe inflates faster than light. Space and time begin to take shape. There had to be a mathematical formula to explain this process, so I wrote one.
ΔT = f’ / e
Temporal Displacement.
How did the universe get here?
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Discussions
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- Aadil Hussain Can you elaborate?
- Lucas Werner It seems that there are several instances where faster than light can be possible, such as at the singularity of a black hole, where our current understanding of physics break down, allowing the light speed constant to be no longer a universal speed limit. Einstein once stated that faster than light would also be, according to General Relativity, an instance of time travel into the past.
- Carsten Fritz-Gruber That formula is a little esoteric. We do not know how the Universe got here. Did you read Roger Sperry’s book? It’s a little tricky.
- Aadil Hussain The major problem that we are facing is that the laws of physics are inconsistent with each other… Either it is nature which is in it’s form behaving like this or something is wrong with our understanding of nature
- Lucas Werner Yes, that was also stated by Emmett Brown in Back to the Future. I agree. It does get strange. The multiverse theory may be able answer for consistency in the paradox of meeting your own grandfather, killing him, making it impossible for you to go back in time to kill him. The Novikov self-consistency principle may hold weight in a vast cosmos filled with an infinite number of possible universes.
- Carsten Fritz-Gruber Aadil, you may be looking for GUT…I don’t think that’s happening anytime soon. The beauty of nature is, that the more we discover, the more riddles we get asked…that’s nature…
- Lucas Werner To me, nature has any number of possible outcomes. There may be universes in which any number of distinct phenomena can occur based upon 1 degree of difference in the boiling of water at room temperature.
- Carsten Fritz-Gruber or the nature of the business
- Carsten Fritz-Gruber Lucas, you are getting close to explaining string theory (which is impossible).
- Carsten Fritz-Gruber Dang…nothing is impossible..sorry…reset…
- Lucas Werner The trickiness with time travel is consistency. String theory needs evidence in order for it to be an acceptable explanation. I feel that will come in time with better technology.
- حكيم الفيلسوف الضائع Lucas Werner: “It seems that there are several instances where faster than light can be possible, such as at the singularity of a black hole, where our current understanding of physics break down, allowing the light speed constant to be no longer a universal speed limit.”
False, light speed is the same in all reference frames and there is no such thing as faster-than-light. - Lucas Werner Untrue. What happens in a black hole at the singularity?
- حكيم الفيلسوف الضائع Lucas Werner: Nothing.
- Carsten Fritz-Gruber This is a highly philosophical discussion. It is intimidating nevertheless, but is is OT.
- Lucas Werner Some scientists believe the speed of light is exceeded in a black hole. E = mc^2, for instance suggests that C^2, light speed multiplied by light speed, must be possible, in order for matter and energy to neither be created nor destroyed. There must be instances in nature where energy slows enough to become matter. How does energy become matter in the universe and where did initial bit of energy come from? In other words, how does the scalar field generate energy from nothing and where did the scalar field come from? How did it get here?
- Lucas Werner The way I see it, when the universe dies, it has no other option, but to reboot.
- Lucas Werner The reason it has to reboot is that matter and energy can neither be created nor destroyed. The only way I can imagine that to be possible is if time itself is cyclical.
- Carsten Fritz-Gruber I think we all went to the point asking ourselves…what’s beyond the limit. Again this is a highly philosophical question.
- Lucas Werner Energy displaces into the past when all the forces merge from nothingness which is not really nothingness. It’s a continual process.
- حكيم الفيلسوف الضائع Lucas Werner: “Some scientists believe the speed of light is exceeded in a black hole. E = mc^2, for instance suggests that C^2, light speed multiplied by light speed, must be possible, in order for matter and energy to neither be created nor destroyed.”
This is pure nonsense. For example applying the same logic: 10¹⁰⁰=10·10⁹⁹ => this is impossible since 10⁹⁹ must exist in order to be correct. Furthermore, I challenge you to quote me a scientist that believe such thing.
“There must be instances in nature where energy slows enough to become matter.”
Energy doesn’t have a speed.
“How does energy become matter in the universe and where did initial bit of energy come from? In other words, how does the scalar field generate energy from nothing and where did the scalar field come from? How did it get here?”
Google: ‘virtual-particles’. - حكيم الفيلسوف الضائع I deleted some provocative and off-topic comments. Don’t repeat.
- Lucas Werner If energy doesn’t have a speed, then how is FTL impossible? During the Cosmic Inflationary period of the universe, space-time itself unfolded at 30 million billion times the speed of light. That is what I’m talking about here.
- حكيم الفيلسوف الضائع Lucas Werner: If space between a point A and a point B expands faster than light, doesn’t mean that point A and point B move faster than light relative to each other.
- Lucas Werner Some force had to have generated energy from nothing and the only way that’s possible is if the nothingness is a continuous process from point A, to point B, to some possible way to reach point A again.
- حكيم الفيلسوف الضائع Lucas Werner: “Some force had to have generated energy from nothing”
Why don’t you google the term: ‘virtual-particle’ - Lucas Werner Don’t virtual particles exist only virtually?
- Lucas Werner There are a number of mathematical forms of matter that we don’t even see in our own universe.
- Lucas Werner My only problem with Brian Greene’s holographic universe theory is the term “holographic”. A more appropriate term may be holographic-like, since, if I’m not mistaken, holograms are generations of light, which is only one of the particles represented in the Standard Model.
- Rich Lennon lol, my comments point out that Big Bang is a flat earth theory (and beyond obviously wrong because of it) was deleted? seems Aristotle still rules. smh. frack this group
- Rich Lennon funny the name of the group, because quantum physics disproves BBT
- حكيم الفيلسوف الضائع @Lucas Werner: No, that is not their meaning.
- حكيم الفيلسوف الضائع Aadil Hussain: Why do I have to do the job in your place? Isn’t googling a term that simple?
- Lucas Werner What is a hologram exactly? I thought a hologram was simply an image produced by a laser. I understand where the idea comes from, but holograms itself are only generated by light. You would also have to explain the holographer, which seems like a round about way of saying “God did it”. Is the holographer also a hologram and if so, what is it composed from?
- حكيم الفيلسوف الضائع Lucas Werner: Did you read what a virtual particle mean?
- Lucas Werner That’s why I say hologram-like. It’s a faulty term, as is “Big Bang”, but it is what we have to work with.
- Lucas Werner In order for the universe to reboot, some phenomenon has to unite those forces within the universe itself.
- Lucas Werner The way I see it, a black hole can unite those forces.
- Lucas Werner There may be similar time bending effects found in dark matter and dark energy.
- Lucas Werner Supernovae may also warp time in the forward direction. There has to be some real way time and space can be warped so much so that the fabric of space and time break and in fact, that’s what happens. The gravitational force of a black hole is so great that space and time break.
- حكيم الفيلسوف الضائع Lucas Werner: Why are you ignoring my posts?
- Lucas Werner I don’t see what a virtual particle has to do with reality. Virtual particles only exist virtually.
- حكيم الفيلسوف الضائع Lucas Werner: Virtual particles do exist.
- Lucas Werner Virtually.
- حكيم الفيلسوف الضائع Lucas Werner: The name ‘virtual’ doesn’t reflect what they are, google man and read the wiki page.
- Lucas Werner Couldn’t you just explain it?
- حكيم الفيلسوف الضائع “a virtual particle is a transient fluctuation that exhibits many of the characteristics of an ordinary particle”
Read this:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web… - Lucas Werner Okay, but I don’t really have the time to read eveything that crosses my desk. Just tell me what it is and how it relates to the discussion.
- حكيم الفيلسوف الضائع Lucas Werner: I also don’t have time to be lost.
- Lucas Werner How do virtual particles relate to the discussion? I’m curious.
- حكيم الفيلسوف الضائع @Lucas Werner: They explain how something could emerge from nothing.
- Lucas Werner http://www.wall.org/~aron/blog/a-universe-from-nothing/A Universe from Nothing?byAron WallPosted onDecember 7, 2012Today I went to a ta…See More
- Lucas Werner My explanation was stated in the OP. Great forces accelerate energy beyond the speed of light, such as in the case of where high gravity breaks the fabric of space-time itself. Such a thing happens in a black hole where gravity breaks space-time itself.
- حكيم الفيلسوف الضائع @Lucas: But it takes an infinite amount of energy to reach the speed of light, let alone be faster.
- Lucas Werner According to Star Trek?
- حكيم الفيلسوف الضائع Lucas Werner: No, according to science.
- Lucas Werner Why an infinite amount of energy?
- حكيم الفيلسوف الضائع Lucas Werner: Let M denote the mass of a particle, by the energy-mass equivalence we have:
E=(mc²)/(\sqrt{(1-v²/c²)})
E goes to infinity as v→c. - Lucas Werner Does it take an infinite amount of energy to break the fabric of space-time?
- حكيم الفيلسوف الضائع Lucas Werner: The fabric of space\time doesn’t break.
- Lucas Werner Hold that thought.
- Lucas Werner I have to do something.
- Lucas Werner Just a brief return before going back to what I’m doing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wormhole…
en.wikipedia.org
A wormhole, also known as an Einstein–Rosen bridge, is a hypothetical topologica…See More - Lucas Werner A force great enough to create a wormhole must be something to the magnitude of a black hole magnified by itself.
- Warren Caruk Lucas Werner is that the same formula you presented before?
didn’t Mazikeen explain to you why it is not viable? Or did you modify it in some way?
Also, you appear to be looking for definite answers where there are none. The study of black holes is in its infancy. We haven’t even seen one yet. Or at least, what can be seen of them. We are only studying them from afar, which is pretty much like trying to make out the year on a silver dollar coin on the moon while looking at it from earth. Things are getting better in leaps and bounds but most of it is still theoretical. There are no definitive answers for a lot of the questions. Altho there is a possibility of creating a very very very miniature one at the LHC some time soon. - Warren Caruk here is a few tidbits just for info for anyone interested.
black holes are the ultimate extreme cosmic phenomena ever explored my mankind.
it is suspected that there are billions of black holes in our universe, perhaps trillions.
at the event horizon it is thought that space/time is so distorted that even while looking at it, it would disappear.
a quote from Smolin ” It is a most curious topography: elegant curves punctured by fearsome holes that pin down the very fabric of space/time and flood it with geysers of radiation and particles.”
black holes spew out an enormous amount of energy during their life cycle, influencing everything that exists in the universe, including ourselves. How black holes work and why they exist are very closely tied to the most fundamental physical laws of relativity, quantum mechanics and even thermodynamics, as well as, why the universe is the way we see it today.
if we are ever able to actually look up close at the event horizon of a black hole, or even send a probe thru it, it goes without saying, that we will discover things not yet imagined.
again, Smolin had this to say about seeing a black hole upclose;
“Finally, thousands of generations after out hominid ancestors loped across the plains of Earth, we would be witness to the end-points of matter in the universe. We have already found matter’s starting point. In the mottled haze of cosmic background photons and the faintest recesses of electromagnetic radiation, we see the imprints of the primordial cosmos, the first steps of normal matter into a nearly 14 billion year history.
But now, as we stare into the twisted chasms the universe has made in itself, we see the same matter leaving us behind. For all intents and purposes it is sinking into, but also out of, this cosmos. With a final impossibly dim and reddened glimmer, these particles are releasing themselves to eternity as they pass across the event horizon.
Yet just before the end of this remarkably long journey, from Big Bang to oblivion within the sheath of an event horizon, matter plays one final role: it gives up what energy it can, and that energy surges back out into the universe to sculpt and color the very environment we occupy.”
“. . . from dust you are, and to dust you shall return” {the bible} only in our case, it may be energy. very low energy.
it is pure speculation what came before the expansion and it is pure speculation what occurs beyond the event horizon of a super massive black hole, within the singularity that exists there. Hopefully, further experiments at the LHC will shed more light on the working of these monsters, unless of course, they swallow us up first. - Lucas Werner Perhaps. I tend to stop listening to people when they call me a “stupid shit”.
- Warren Caruk if they are wrong, then they are the stupid shit, in which case it’s up to you to show them why, if you are so inclined. but if they are right, well, there is no shame in being wrong or misunderstanding something, or to just have a lack of info. But you are right, name calling doesn’t help a thing and only makes a difficult subject more confusing.
- Lucas Werner Flinging insults is a sure sign of not knowing what one is talking about.
- Warren Caruk sometimes the mud slinging does say more about the person doing the slinging as opposed to their intelligence on a given subject. As I said before, our humanity tends to get in the way.
someone once asked when participating in a debate, “do you read to understand, or do you read to reply?” many do the latter and often miss the point.
someone else once suggested that a person should try to summarize in their own words, what a person is saying, whether they agree with them or not. If they can’t, then they likely don’t understand the persons point and should make further enquires before offering an opinion.
nice words, but hard to do most times. - Lucas Werner I think people get their personas and personality mixed up, so they become arrogant out of the insecurity of appearing wrong.
- Warren Caruk as far as the OP goes, to date it appears as tho the universe will end with a big whimper instead of a crunch. Unless something is found that will change what at present appears to be happening. The thing to remember is that matter becomes diluted as the universe expands. But energy doesn’t. If dark energy is causing the expansion of our universe, the “push” will never stop. Back holes or no black holes.
- Lucas Werner That’s one theory.
- Warren Caruk so far it agrees with observation to date. of course there are other theories, some pushed along by wishful thinking, or maybe a form of cognitive dissonance when it comes to our existence which includes the universe as a necessity.
- Lucas Werner We seem to be getting into slippery slope territory.
- Warren Caruk when it comes to predicting the future of our universe, or at least the details of how it all works, should we expect anything else at this point.
- Warren Caruk I will say tho, that on what little info I have or understand, I am inclined to the cyclical universe theories. the how and why is another matter
- Lucas Werner That’s what this guy is saying.
- Lucas Werner A cyclic comos just makes the most sense.
- Daat Sortiarius In my imaginary view of understanding; and I host plenty of those: I believe that the spherically outward charge was sent at the rate of light speed from supposed singularity gases , and has not stopped yet. Now : at what rate this ‘send’ is travelling at and degree of depreciation (if much at all yet) is unfathomable; so perhaps a slight degradation of light speed universal expansion. Probably ends up ceasing to an expansive halt, so that ‘rate’ which is the frontier of ‘time’ will become frozen which means we can’t move any longer through space time. Scary thought. The fact is: we are existing in old time space amidst the send of time: so earth and solid vibration forms of planets are hosts for old time space cadets like humanoids. We do not experience the frontier of time at all; what we experience is old time space within a 20% send position of the time blast. To surpass this frontier of territorial expansion, we would have to travel faster than the speed of the current send, thus beaming into the future of time expansion; so, although the passage of past and future is illusion, it in fact has already occurred due to us being encaptured within old time space of its frontier of creation that has already happened. Basically, the stretch signature pull of life ‘time’ has already ‘gone’ and ‘completed’ before we can experience it. We are only experiencing old time existence by operating the ‘past’ of old time space. Functional delay.
- Karen Beaumont-Zmina Interesting post. Two things: 1) doesn’t heat expand and cold contract? 2) I have a hard time with theories attempting to explain ‘the universe’ and it’s life cycle when we don’t even know what it is or is not. We only know vaguely what immediately surrounds us, and very basic physics of how matter/energy operates on earth vs space. I say very basic in that we have too many contradictions to our basic laws of physics, quantum or otherwise. We use the word ‘paradox’ to explain something that doesn’t fit into our rules, rather than admitting the rules were wrong in the first place. Then there’s chaos theory of course. But anyway my long winded second point is I don’t believe it is possible to even discuss the universe let alone name it, especially with equations, until we come up with a science/language that has working laws that doesn’t constantly render itself moot with each new contradiction. Quantum is getting there but it’s still wrong and not there yet, I want to see what comes next.
- Warren Caruk ^^^ not to mention “the fudge factor” ;(
- Warren Caruk but we have to start somewhere
- Lucas Werner Daat Sortiarius Well. according to some, time is only an illusion, meaning all events are occurring simultaneously. I wonder how that can be proven. It seems more philosophy than fact, but it’s possible. I’d like to know.
- حكيم الفيلسوف الضائع Lucas Werner: Why you never responded to my posts?
And “time is only an illusion” does not imply that “all events are occurring simultaneously”. - Lucas Werner I was responding to Daat Sortiarius.
- Lucas Werner I’ve responded to several of your posts, admin, whose name I can’t pronounce because I can neither read, nor speak, what looks to be Arabic. Which posts are you referring to? I’ve tried to respond to everything I see. Bare with me. I’m only human.
- Shawn Kennedy There does not need to be an origin or end. In the system of causality that governs all conditioned events and things… there is no original cause or final effect. There can be a limit to the scope of which we can see and use our math and experiments to explain what happened. But at this time we cannot safely say with 100% certainty there is an origin or end. Also… it is impossible for “nothing” to exist. Its a complete contradiction. Even what we perceive to be nothing has properties, therefore is something. Even if its only property is allowing things to exist inside of it and not obstructing it.
- Lucas Werner It’s more like almost nothing.
- Lucas Werner ΔT = f ‘ / e
In order to understand the equation, you have to imagine a force capable of accelerating matter (E = mc^2) beyond the speed of light.
The force has to exist and be possible because it has occurred. The scientific consensus is that cosmic inflation occurred shortly after the initial event that created our universe.
We currently call this event The Big Bang. This cosmic inflationary period in the first second of our universe expanded space-time at a rate of 30 million billion times the speed of light. A wormhole would provide further evidence.
Force is measured in newtons. Energy is measured in joules. The yield will be a measure in kilograms per second for a number of seconds in the opposing temporal direction. X kilograms / second for Y seconds. - Wolf Dancer Hubris.
- Lucas Werner It might be hubris, but in order to test it, you have to find a force capable of accelerating to that magnitude, such as a wormhole. If I’m wrong, I’ll retract every word, but in order for it to be wrong, it has to be proven wrong.
- Warren Caruk << in order for it to be wrong, it has to be proven wrong. >> NOT ;/
- Lucas Werner I’m not wrong.
- Lucas Werner We have to find a wormhole and wormholes are hypothetical.
- Wolf Dancer You just make your own formula up out of nothing and actually think there is the slightest chance you have hit onto something? Yikes.
- Daat Sortiarius Well from what I saw: we are nothing more than existing within a tiny screen of subatomic particle , energy and light. Now although this almost nothingness contained the frontal universe, there was nothing else around it to exist; like placing a bubble in a lounge, then removing the lounge but leaving the bubble in place which was the only microcosmic container for what also seemed to be an organic projection of dispersed atomic dimensions - outwardly from an inward lens. Time became very slow and from that day I think it is a shrunken microcosm with macrocosm inside it. And, I also agree that illusion has to be ‘something’ for it to be the illusion. If time did not exist, we would not be able to move.
- Daat Sortiarius When you cut a light photon in half 14 miles apart, it wants to join and act like it is connected to the other photon, so what does this tell us about the origin of the singularity elements (us) before everything was blasted outwards; and uneven gases
- Lucas Werner The universe cooled, separated and all the particles formed from that initial bit of merged forces and energy.
